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Post by GEO on Mar 21, 2007 13:48:14 GMT -5
Simple debate. Who is the greatest coach of all time?
Sports you can use coaches from:
Basketball (College or Pro) Baseball Hockey Football Soccer
Not only will I be looking for who puts together the best debate, I'll be looking for who best exploits the other coaches. That's a huge part of the criteria for me.
And I have no opinion on this, so everything will be objective, no matter what the sport.
Go.
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Post by Xephyr on Mar 23, 2007 17:38:51 GMT -5
I'm wondering why there's no post here, but I'm saying Thad Matta. He pulls together crazy stuff with Ohio State. He's made a so-so team of 2006 into the number 1 team in the country and as of now an Elite 8 contestant. I'm gonna wait until other coaches come along for more..
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Post by Rage on Mar 24, 2007 13:31:35 GMT -5
Thad Matta, by no stretch of the imagination is the best coach of all time, because he took at "so-so" (actually very good considering the recruiting class) team to the Elite 8. Georgetown was ranked lower than them at the beginning of the year and they're in the same spot. In that case I guess John Thompson III is the best coach of all time. No.
When I think of who is the greatest coach of all time I consider two things: longevity and championships.
The first that comes to my mind is the late Arrnold "Red" Auerbach. He was a pioneer for the game of basketball. It came alive in the 50's and 60's during Red's tenure. He won nine NBA championships, including an upheard of eight straight from 1959-1966. Red constructed the Celtic dynasty. He traded for Bill Russell, Robert Parrish and Kevin McHale. He drafted a guy by the name of Larry Bird as GM. He once stood a top the NBA's winniest coach list with 938 career regular season wins and 99 career playoff wins, until 94-95. He was the Jordan of coaching.
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Post by GEO on Mar 25, 2007 15:07:25 GMT -5
Two responses. Two basketball guys, interesting.
I need more justification for Thad Matta. One season doesn't make you the greatest coach of all time.
As for Red, his story is so impressive because the team he won with was actually made by his own doing.
Good answer.
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Post by BlackOps on Mar 25, 2007 15:26:55 GMT -5
Thad Matta isn't the greatest coach of all time, but he's got something going. He's 39 years old.
7 straight 20 win seasons. 6 straight tourney appearances (04-05 ineligible). Elite 8 with Xavier. Final 4 with OSU. Won a game in every tournament appearance.
Huge classes coming in...one senior this year. Thad Matta is cool.
I'll post my totally non-homer pick soon. I've got some good ones to choose from.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 2, 2007 23:25:33 GMT -5
I'd have to say Bobby Bowden. He's a Hall of Famer, very deservingly, who has set numerous records. As of 2003, he's the winningest coach in NCAA history. 350+ career victories. He's also the winningest coach in bowl games by percentage and just one away from most bowl wins of all time. He's coached two national Championship teams. He's been at FSU for more than 30 years (an astounding fact considering the fluidity of coaches today). At one point in his illustirious his career, he lead the Seminoles to 14 straight top 5 rankings. Since joining the ACC under Bowden, FSU has claimed 11 ACC Championships. The numbers on this man are amazing. That's not why he's the best though. That puts him top 5, maybe top 3. I think he's the best though, because when he spoke at LU, he showed he had real character. He talked of his priorities. He told us of how God came first, then his family, then football. He's a man of God, a family man and a great coach. He's the best of all time. Others have numbers, but his personality and character put him well above the competition.
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Post by Rage on Apr 5, 2007 7:03:50 GMT -5
I thought about Bowden also, but I think he needs to know when to hang it up. Recruits look at this struggling program and say, "Bowden may retire any season now, so I don't want to commit." That hurts the program and I think he needs to understand that.
Also, once star LB AJ Nicholson has had a few run-ins with the law and if I'm not mistaken so has Peter Warrick.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 5, 2007 14:55:34 GMT -5
1. AJ Nicholson and Peter Warrick have nothing to do with Bobby Bowden's greatness. They're just players that he coached. He's not expected to change the world. He's expected to win games, which he's done for 30 years. 2. Hanging it up has nothing to do with him being the greatest coach either. In my mind, he's the best of the past and the present. He wins games. Last year they were a good team. They're young, but good. They finished 7-6, all but one game within a touchdown. Plus, they clobbered their bowl opponents (UCLA). Yeah, they might be struggling, but they were still a force. 3. If I was a player, instead of thinking "I won't commit because Bobby might retire" I'd be thinking "I'm going to commit before he does so I can be coached by the best of all time." Bobby is a legend around florida and among the college football world. Don't tell him to hang it up. JoPa is 80. He can barely walk. I doubt he can even hear anymore. Calling plays? Unlikely. More like mumbling some 'old people' jargon in the locker room before the games. If anyone should hang it up, he should. Bobby Bowden hang it up? Garbage.
PS- I think you should know, I hate Florida State. Being a VT fan, when they beat us in the sugar bowl (I think) and took away Vick's last chance to win one, man I hated them. I still hate them. I even rooted for Duke when they played them last year. Long story short, I don't like the team. I just respect Bobby Bowden for the legend that he is.
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Post by BlackOps on Apr 5, 2007 18:54:12 GMT -5
I contemplated Joe Gibbs and Knute Rockne, but I could only find it right to settle on one man. Woody Hayes coached Ohio State from 1951 to 1978. During that time, his teams went 205-61-10. He won 13 Big Ten titles and 3 national titles with the Buckeyes. My reason for picking him is almost the total opposite of BWW's reasoning for picking Bowden. Hayes has an immense passion for the game, and especially for the state and university of Michigan. He would expect everything from his players for victory. His offenses were known for their running game, AKA "three yards and a cloud of dust." He produced such college players as Archie Griffin, the only two-time Heisman Trophy winner. His passion got the best of him at times. His career as a coach ended at the end of a bowl game vs. Clemson, where one of Clemson's players made an interception at the end of the game, and Hayes proceded to choke and punch him in the throat, thus being fired by Ohio State. What a way to go out. Basically, Bowden loves and respects the game. Hayes loved the game of football, but he was there to win no matter what. I love that in a coach. I know now, Jim Tressel doesn't give quite the same vibe, but he did win one, so its all the same.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 8, 2007 2:29:16 GMT -5
See, that's a pick no one (besides an Ohio State fan) would think of. There are several reasons he is not and cannot be the best coach of all time. 1. This one stands out. He choked a guy. Are you for real? If Bill Parcells came over and choked Santana Moss, you would hate him. He might be doing all it takes to win, but that's just wrong. A coach should know how to behave, regardless of the games outcome. Passion is one thing, but the line has to be drawn. He tarnished his name. He won't be "the best of all time." Instead, he'll be "one of the coaches who lost it" 2. Who's heard of this guy before? Really..? Ohio State fans (maybe). NCAA fans (maybe very devoted ones). Nerds who know that crap (like you BO). Bobby Bowden is a legend. People know him. Any fan of college football has heard of Bobby Bowden. My mom (who has probably seen 3 college football games in her whole life) knows who he is. My Grandpa watched him coach when he was in the army. People just know him. Why is that? He's the best. He's a legend. 3. Bowden has staying power. He is a grown man and acts like it. He can control himself. He keeps his cool and demands respect from his players. 33 years. Think about that. That's a long time. 27 is a while too, but Bowden is still going strong. I can't see him leaving (uness his health fails all of the sudden). If Bobby Bowden ever jumps on the field and chokes a player, feel free to come to my home and slap me in the face with a trout. 4. (There isn't a four. It just looks longer if I add a 4th step )
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Post by GEO on Apr 9, 2007 19:26:49 GMT -5
BWW: You're point about choking a player really doesn't stand up. A bad person can make a great coach.
Is Bobby Knight not a great coach? Because if a terrible temper takes away from greatness, then Knight shouldn't be anywhere near the Hall of Fame.
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Post by One Nut Kruk on Apr 9, 2007 20:10:46 GMT -5
Speaking of Bowden, how about Joe Pa?
He turned Penn State into a football school and has the most wins ever in Bowl Games. Only 3 wins behind Bowden in all time wins.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 10, 2007 1:01:33 GMT -5
GEO- To me, if you choke a player, you're not a great coach. Being a great coach is more than just wins. I can't possibly respect a man who choked a player. You might be able to, but I look at a man's backbone when I decide who the best is. If you choke a defensless player, in my opinion, you have no backbone. Yes, a temper does take away from greatness. Bob Knight doesn't know how to act either. It does take away from greatness. He's won in every situation though. He's taken terrible teams and made them good. He's taken good teams and made them better. Bob Knight is great. His history offsets his temper. He'll never be the best, to me, because (again) there's more to a coach than wins and losses. In my mind, coaches should be respectible. Like Tony Dungy or Joe Gibbs. Guys who lash out take away from there legacy and deminshes there greatness. Not fact, just my opinion.
One Nut Kruk- The year before Bowden went to Florida State, the team won 1 game. Bowden has made them into a force to be feared every year. As far as the wins, Bowden has coached 3 less years. Joe Pa is old as dirt. Bowden still influences games. Joe Pa is more of a mascot than a coach. (Not to disrespect Joe Pa, because he is a legend.)
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Post by GEO on Apr 10, 2007 18:51:59 GMT -5
I don't have to respect someone to recognize greatness.
Your comment about Joe Pa is off base. He still coaches that team as well as anybody else possibly could.
One Nut Kruk: I need more on why Joe Pa is the greatest. First, I need some reasoning on why he beats Bowden. Then I need to hear why he beats BWW's choice.
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Post by One Nut Kruk on Apr 10, 2007 18:54:35 GMT -5
I was just throwing it out there.
I think Bowden and Joe Pa are on the same level as coaches. They both turned the football teams around and took them from trash to glory. Although Bowden has a few more wins overall, Paterno has more Bowl wins.
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