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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 10, 2007 20:28:00 GMT -5
Joe Pa doesn't coach. You can say he does, but he hardly does anything. He might tell the assitants some strategies every now and then, but other than that.. he doesn't do anything. That's why there are tons of "fire joe pa" websites out there. They're made by fans who actually care about the team and know if Joe Pa stays, they'll never reach potential. He doesn't coach as well as any other coach could. A majority of coaches actually call the plays. He had his good years, but he's past his prime. Everyone knows it. You have to admit it. That's why Bowden is better. He coached less, won more, and is still going strong.
As far as the respect thing, I'll agree to disagree. If I hate a guy, I'll never recognize him as great. He might have wins, but if he cheats and spits and swears and throws things and hurts players, he'll never be the greatEST to me (which is the debate here). He may be great, but never the greatest. Not to me.
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Post by GEO on Apr 12, 2007 15:56:58 GMT -5
Get your final thoughts in, as this ends tomorrow.
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Post by BlackOps on Apr 12, 2007 16:56:03 GMT -5
This is not a final thought, but if the discussion is about greatest all time coaches and BWW says he's never even heard of Woody Hayes, then this is a travesty. A real one.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 12, 2007 18:06:57 GMT -5
I'm arguing my opinion. Why should I have to know your guy? (I'll post my final thoughts later).
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 13, 2007 0:02:56 GMT -5
If you want my closing statements, read my first post. Bobby is legendary. He has the wins. He has the respect. He has the character. Woody Hayes has one of those three. I'll let you figure out which one's he's lacking. (It should be obvious). Joe Pa is great. He is a legend too. But Bowden is still the man in charge at Florida State. Joe Pa is no longer in control of the team. He's kind of like the queen of england. People listen to her and respect her, but there is a prime minister (offensive/defensive coordinator) to actually make real decisions. In Bowden's case, it's more like the US. He's the president. He's got guys in charge of other things, but he's still the leader. That's what separates Bowden and Joe Pa.
I guess, this debate is all opinion. There can't be a black/white answer. But from the all the gray responses in this debate, Bowden is the most clear. He's got the most wins. He's younger than Joe Pa. He played longer (and wiser) than Woody Hayes. He is a Hall of Fame coach. He's is a legend. 50 years from now, when ESPN 5 is doing a report on great coaches of history, Bowden will be near the top of the list, as he should.
I'll conclude with a quote from the greatest coach of all time. He said, “It's something we don't talk about. My religion and faith won't let it matter to me. Sure, winning matters in this job. But some record? You're not going to take it when you go, are you?" Bobby Bowden is not a typical coach. He loves the game of football. He loves his family more. He loves the Lord even more than that. He is a man of character and integrity. I respect him more than any other coach. Not only for his great coaching or the numerous records he's set. I respect him for his wins, his work ethic, his discipline, his ability to coach and transform a young man's life. I respect him for his lifestyle. I respect him for his mindset. He wakes up, thanks God for giving him another day. He loves his family. Then, only then, he coaches. And I know you're saying, that's all well and good, but I need facts. Fact is, I don't respect him for facts. Wins are impressive, but living the life Bowden has lived, that is the life of legend. Carve his name in stone. He will not be forgotten for years and years and years to come.
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Post by BlackOps on Apr 13, 2007 20:30:48 GMT -5
Well, it is good for people and coaches to earn respect, but we're talking about the best coach, not the best person. If it were about that, I definitely would not have chosen Woody. Hey, I was the one who brought up his run in with the Clemson player. To me, even though it was dirty, it showed his desire to win and his desire to be a good coach.
I'm not really going to bother writing out a huge thing showing why he's the best coach, but if one more person knows who he is, fine by me. He doesn't need to be known as a great person, but as a fierce competitor. That is all he was.
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Post by GEO on Apr 13, 2007 21:03:09 GMT -5
After reading the entire debate twice, I've picked a winner. Both Woody Hayes and Bobby Bowden are acceptable answers in my eyes, but it really wasn't about the answer, moreso about the debate. The winner is BlackOpsIt really came down to BWW not really coming up with a good reason as to why Hayes isn't the greatest coach of all time. You gave three reasons: 1. He choked a guy. BlackOps had a fine comeback, basically saying that it's not about being the best person. Good point. 2. Nobody has really heard of him? I beg to differ. Ryan Leaf is a legend as well. Doesn't mean he's great. 3. He has staying power. Not really sure why this automatically means greatness. Whatever the case, both of you had good arguments, but BO gets the win. Post the next one within two days, please
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 14, 2007 13:52:24 GMT -5
Wow. I have to say I'm shocked. I didn't read anywhere when BlackOps argued against Bowden. I just reread his arguments several times (because he made like 4 short posts). It's ok. I guess I can't win them all. Even though I actually tried in this one. GEO just doesn't agree with me Good job BO. (Bowden still owns)
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Post by BlackOps on Apr 15, 2007 10:53:42 GMT -5
Does anybody have any suggestions? We can talk about the NFL's new conduct policy, kids leaving school early, or Hank Aaron and Barry Bonds, or something else, because these things will go on forever.
My first time doing this..thoughts?
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Post by GEO on Apr 15, 2007 15:53:55 GMT -5
I think kids leaving school early would get the best and most variety of answers. (It's actually your fourth time )
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Post by republican on Apr 15, 2007 22:21:04 GMT -5
Pat Summit is hands down the best coach of all time. She has 913 Victories in only 32 years. Not only does she have more wins than any coach in the history of College basketball (men or women) She has 7 National Championships. She has never failed in the history of March Madness to bring her team to the Sweet Sixteen. She only has 177 losses to her 913 victories. She has 13 SEC Championships, 12 SEC Tournament Titles, and is 92 and 19 in NCAA Tournament Play. She has been awarded the NAISMITH COACH OF THE CENTURY in the year 2000. Not only does she have these awards she coached in the Olympics and her team brought home the gold for the USA. So while other coaches Bowden and Jo Pa have had great success, no one's mirrors that of the greatest coach of all time, Coach Summit.
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Post by republican on Apr 15, 2007 22:22:26 GMT -5
oops sorry didn't know this was over. I still think my coach his the best too bad i'm late.
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Post by blindlywewander on Apr 16, 2007 0:17:31 GMT -5
ha. nice. i would argue that, but this debate is over so i won't waste my time. good try though
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Post by GEO on Apr 16, 2007 17:46:30 GMT -5
All of these threads stay open and are moved to Past Debates. Even if the judging is over, the debating apsect can still be present.
Summit is a good choice, but I do question the toughness of winning in women's college basketball as opposed to men's college basketball. In the tournament, is it a coincidence that the top seeds usually always get to the Final Four?
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Post by republican on Apr 16, 2007 19:25:26 GMT -5
Competition is Competition and for a Coach, any Coach to be able to bring a Team to be one of the best teams year in and out that says alot and many men would give their right arms for her talent. Men or Woman to be a coach takes brains and no man is better. The numbers prove it. Pat has been afford at least 3 mens coaching jobs in the last 5 years and has turned them down because of her love for the womens game.
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