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Post by blindlywewander on May 28, 2007 23:30:50 GMT -5
This year in the NFL, the new 'conduct' policy has taken the league by storm. Pacman was the first blood, but there will likely be much more. So, the question is how far does this policy reach? If Peyton Manning was arrested would he get punished? If Tom Brady punched a woman in a strip club, is his season over? Is race an issue? If so, how so and how can it be resolved? Goddell wants a cleaner league, but with all the incidents lately, is it even possible? What are the limits? Should there be limits? Answer these questions or address ones of your own. (Creativity earns points ) Discuss in depth.
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Post by jdbsa05 on May 29, 2007 17:16:21 GMT -5
There are many things wrong with the policy. The policy fails to explain lots of things, like what are the limits, and so forth. However, there are many other things wrong with it.
First, the policy states that there are no exceptions. This means, according to my interpretation of it, that everyone is responsible for what they do, everywhere. Why is this the case? If the athelete gets into trouble abroad, how are [the NFL staff] going to know? [The athelete's] friends might not say anything. That being said, there are also other things that occur. A cleaner league is not possible.
Further, look at the Giants v. Dolphins game in London. The guys on one team might throw a fight outside of the game, on the bye week, on the way to the plane, at a party, who knows?
There needs to be limits, since the NFL can't be everywhere all the time. Vacations, etc. keep the stars out of the NFL's reach. Specifically, NFL atheletes limits are in the US only. Outside of that is beyond the NFL's jurisdiction. Manning should get punished, if in the US. Brady, punished as well. It also depends on the seriousness of the arrest/action. Everyone is responsible for whatever happens in their body, but they can only be punished by the NFL where the NFL is... The good old USA.
Finally, a cleaner league is possible, or at least one that seems clean. Let atheletes do what they want in the other countries, but not in the USA. The USA is where the NFL gets its reputation. Not in Europe, not in China. In the USA. Therefore, the limit needs to be in the USA.
Q.E.D.
Thank you.
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Post by GEO on May 31, 2007 16:22:23 GMT -5
The policy should apply to every player, every coach, every GM, every trainer, and every human being that is associated with the NFL. In my mind, if a policy is made to clean up a league, the only way to do it is make it apply to everyone in the league. Otherwise, the policy won't remain strong.
If they are charger, then yes. Tom Brady, while he is the poster boy of the league, wouldn't be if he went around punching women in a strip club. Lets say Brady or Manning did this and were allowed to play. What's that saying to other players? Chris Henry and Pacman Jones aren't superstars, so they can be suspended?
So far, Goddell is handling all of the situations just right. He is setting up private meetings with players instead of just handing out sentences. He's been fair, cutting time off some of the suspensions for good behavior and NOTHING has gone unchecked thus far.
If an athlete does something abroad, and a friend doesn't say anything, then there is no problem. Think about it. If Michael Vick was dog fighting, but we had never heard anything about it, is the league clean? To us? Yes. To other fans? Yes. And that's all that matters.
If we knew nothing about steroids, would Major League Baseball be clean? Of course. Because we would have no idea. Right now, Lance Armstrong is clean. But what if we find out he was on some drug? Then he wouldn't be. But what we don't know, can't affect us.
It would be reported and dealt with. In this situation, a VERY harsh penalty should be handed down because the players represent our Country.
I disagree. If a player is officially signed up as an NFL employee, he needs to be responsible. Lets say your dad has a job with a company and in his vaction time, he gets involved with drugs and does something illegal. The company doesn't just "push that aside" because he was on vacation.
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Post by blindlywewander on May 31, 2007 22:38:28 GMT -5
jdbsa05- At one point you said "A cleaner league is not possible." Then, toward the end, you said it is possible. Which side are you arguing for?
Also, go deeper. There's room for hypotheticals, but also facts. Your main argument was how it should apply to players within the US. I agree that the NFL is limited to within reasonable bounds, but what are the limits within the US. If a player has a dispute with his wife, and is arrested for spousal abuse, is it the NFL's place to step in and punish the player after the law already has?
GEO- I can't agree with you. What we don't know can't affect us? It completely changes the game. You're technically right, but eventually things will come out. Had Bonds not been caught and the steroids thing been kept under the table for years, then we find out 20 years down the road, baseball would suffer far greater than it has with the current situation. It's the same with NFL conduct. If players are involved in criminal acts, but the public views those players as role models simply because they don't know better, that's wrong. When these players are outed for who they really are, it'll hurt the league much more.
Also, Goddell punished Tank Johnson, who went to prison for his run in with the law, for a shorter period than that of Pacman Jones, who did not go to prison for any of his arrests. Multiple arrests count more than jail time? So, had this policy been around a few years ago, where would Ray Lewis or Jamal Lewis be? Missing a season? Or a few games like Tank?
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Post by blindlywewander on May 31, 2007 22:39:18 GMT -5
ps- Where is NYI? He needs to be in on this. Ha.
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Post by GEO on Jun 1, 2007 14:35:21 GMT -5
I disagree. When Jose Canseco came out with the steroids scandal and we found out about McGuire, the outcry wasn't anything near we would have witnesed compared what would have happened if they were active guys.
In response to the "eventually, things come out," I was addressing jdbsa05's hypothetical theory that no one finds out.
Do you think the Michael Vick case has really hurt the league? Vick, yes. But the league? No.
Tank showed he was making an effort to change, while Pacman was continuouslly warned about violations and kept on creating them.
As for Ray and Jamal Lewis, I can't comment because I don't know the specifics of how they were acting/specifics of the case.
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Post by blindlywewander on Jun 1, 2007 22:51:16 GMT -5
This whole conduct thing has hurt the league. Finding out how many criminals there are in football hurts the league's image. It's like, "What is this basketball?!" (Ha.. not really.) The NFL likes to have a clean image and all these law-breakers are hurting the game. I think Vick's case has hurt the league. He was a superstar. A role model. Kids look up to this guy all over America. And now this? The NFL's superstars are dog-fighters, lie to police (assuming he's guilty), and hide 'substances' in water bottles?
Tank went to prison. Pacman didn't. So Pac messed up and stayed out late.. so what? He hasn't been in jail. Tank was. For a while. How is that fair?
As far as the baseball thing, if we didn't know Barry was on roids, we'd love him (well, maybe). The record would be exciting. Every game of his would be exciting like it was when Sosa and Big Mac were going for the record. Now, assume we find out 20 years down the road. That not only makes the time Barry was active look bad, but it raises speculation for the entire 20 years that we haven't known. If a few guys juiced then, how many must do it now? I think the result is worse.
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Post by GEO on Jun 2, 2007 11:28:54 GMT -5
I love how this has turned into a debate with the creator, which isn't supposed to happen, much less the champion. We need others to join in.
I still disagree. The record would be exciting, ratings would go up, and there'd be a huge celebration for the record. But even so, my original arguement was to jd's. So I won't go any further then what he argued.
Situations were assesed. Pacman, I mean Adam, did something, did it again, was warned, did it again, was warned again, did it again. Repeat the process.
Tank went to jail. He has served his time, taken his punishment, and is making steps to better himself. What has Pacman done?
I'd rather know that the league was weeding out the criminals then just letting them run free. The Vick case has NOT hurt the league. Kids who looked up to him are now saying "Michael Vick, he's such a jerk. lol, brb!@#@!!" But I doubt any of them are saying "The NFL sucks. It's the worst league ever." Instead, they begin to look up to players such as Donovan McNab, Tom Brady, or a newcomer like Quinn or Russell.
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KINGLEBRON
Starter
YANKEEBASEBALL2[M:-300]
Posts: 144
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Post by KINGLEBRON on Jun 3, 2007 14:16:24 GMT -5
This whole conduct thing has hurt the league. Finding out how many criminals there are in football hurts the league's image. It's like, "What is this basketball?!" (Ha.. not really.) The NFL likes to have a clean image and all these law-breakers are hurting the game. I think Vick's case has hurt the league. He was a superstar. A role model. Kids look up to this guy all over America. And now this? The NFL's superstars are dog-fighters, lie to police (assuming he's guilty), and hide 'substances' in water bottles? Tank went to prison. Pacman didn't. So Pac messed up and stayed out late.. so what? He hasn't been in jail. Tank was. For a while. How is that fair? No the conduct policy hasn't hurt the league because players used to just brush it off and I mean you know players like their money, and when they start losing paychecks after paychecks they will start to get the point and start to clean up their act. I can bet that Pacman probably won't be getting into anymore trouble for the rest of his career. The Vick situation, he hasn't been a role model to most because he really hasn't won anything in his career. But just to let you know that whole water bottle thing was dropped and wasn't true, but this dog-fighting thing is idiotic. Tank served his punishment, but really shouldn't be allowed in the league for the season because you said he went to jail, pacman didn't he should be suspended one year.
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Post by GEO on Jun 3, 2007 14:22:08 GMT -5
Come now. Peyton Manning was a role model before he was a champ. Donovan McNabb is a role model. In fact, ALL athletes are supposed to be role models.
And Vick was on the cover of Madden, the most popular sports video game EVER.
He went to jail. So what? He didn't break out. He served his time. And now he should be out all year? That's crazy.
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KINGLEBRON
Starter
YANKEEBASEBALL2[M:-300]
Posts: 144
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Post by KINGLEBRON on Jun 3, 2007 14:38:42 GMT -5
Come now. Peyton Manning was a role model before he was a champ. Donovan McNabb is a role model. In fact, ALL athletes are supposed to be role models. And Vick was on the cover of Madden, the most popular sports video game EVER. He went to jail. So what? He didn't break out. He served his time. And now he should be out all year? That's crazy. He served his time with the Law but not with the league. It happened in the offseason, where he missed NO PAYCHECKS, I'm telling you guys, start taking some of that away, and athletes will change their act in a hurry. Alot of people (including myself) don't and will never see Vick as a role model because of all the things hes done with the law and flipping of YOUR HOME FANS. Tom Brady, Peyton Manning, Donovan McNabb all role models because they aren't coach killers and they don't get into trouble. Vick is not.
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Post by GEO on Jun 3, 2007 14:51:38 GMT -5
Just because you don't think he's a role model doesn't mean others don't. I don't view any athlete as a role model, but kids all around the world do.
And Vick being a "coach killer" isn't his fault.
But keep the debate on topic.
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Post by BlackOps on Jun 3, 2007 18:06:17 GMT -5
Gahhhh for those of you who don't think athletes are role models, you should read my hero essay about Troy Smith for last semester's religion exam. Gahhhh for those of you who don't think athletes who don't win the big one are role models, you should read my hero essay about Troy Smith for last semester's religion exam, the day after the national championship game.
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Post by GEO on Jun 3, 2007 18:10:17 GMT -5
Haha, it's not that they aren't role models, it's just that I don't look up to any as one.
But that's honestly not what this debate is about anyway.
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Post by GEO on Jun 5, 2007 13:55:59 GMT -5
A little news related to this:
Tank was suspended for eight games, but he can cut that in half if he keeps doing what he's been doing. Thoughts?
BWW: It's time to rap this up soon.
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