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Post by blindlywewander on Jan 20, 2007 21:16:40 GMT -5
You guys are arguing all about stats. When it comes down to it, stats just don't mean as much anymore. Big Mac is thought to have done steroids. We all saw his deer-in-headlights look when congress asked him and he responded with a 'Uh, I, we're not talking about the past. We're talking about the present' (Shew). That episode is going to cost him the hall. Know why? Because every single person who votes on who enters the hall saw that look in his eye and knows that he used steroids. And even though his stats may be comparable to others already in the hall (at the bottom end of the spectrum), it's still up to the voters on whether or not he gets in. We saw by the first ballot that no one thinks he deserves it. They're people too. I know they should be machines and vote based on baseball statistics and that's it, but that's not how things happen. People have thoughts and opinions and bias. Having him in baseball did help the game, but I think they'll send the wrong image by letting a guy in who didn't really earn it.
BO- The link was on some ESPN.com article. It didn't have the direct quote, but it said he's admitted to it. I'll look it up when I get time.
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Post by BlackOps on Jan 21, 2007 12:04:09 GMT -5
There is no proof.
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Post by GEO on Jan 21, 2007 15:40:35 GMT -5
So while a number of guys with "mediocre" (as you seem to see it) stats get in, we're giving one guy the short end of the stick because of what happened outside of baseball? If we keep letting mediocre guys get in, we're not doing the Hall any favors, are we?
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Post by BlackOps on Jan 21, 2007 16:41:46 GMT -5
haha, his numbers aren't mediocre. He has a humongous number of home runs. Those are nice numbers.
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Post by GEO on Jan 22, 2007 18:28:32 GMT -5
Home runs are the only stat he has. If he had, lets say, a huge number of hits, I might give him the "in" signal, but as it stands, he would have the fourth fewest hits of anyone on the ballot.
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Post by blindlywewander on Jan 22, 2007 23:03:01 GMT -5
Stats are too important to you guys. They're obviously not as important to the HOF voters. Big Mac has comparable statistics as a hall of famer, but his charcter is subpar. His honesty and integrity was compromised nationally after the court room incident. Yeah, stats are important, but by comparing the number of yes's to the number of no's, stats aren't as important. At least homers aren't. Had he been a great hitter or gotten on base more or just a better all around player and not just a slugger who was juiced back before they were illegal, sure maybe he'd make it. But he doesn't have the stats, nor the character and reputation of a typical hall of famer. While there may be some less-than-adequate players in the hall now (in terms of character), the organization and leaders in Canton do their best to maintain a certain level of respect and can not make the same mistakes over and over. Inducting Mark McGuire into the hall of fame would be a mistake because not only are his stats in the lesser half of current members of the hall, but his integrity, trustworthiness and overall character no longer exist. All because of accusations. Proof isn't necessary for the public. Proof isn't necessary for the teams. And proof is definitely not necessary for the HOF voters.
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Post by GEO on Jan 23, 2007 16:28:18 GMT -5
We're going to end this tomorrow night. No closing statements. Just keep debating until tomorrow at around 8 or 9ish and you can put in a final comment if you want. I'll choose a winner tomorrow or Thursday. Thanks for helping get this going again
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Post by BlackOps on Jan 23, 2007 17:04:21 GMT -5
Huh? Did he kill anyone? Hurt anyone? Do anything illegal?
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Post by blindlywewander on Jan 23, 2007 20:49:16 GMT -5
If that's how you define character, then you should pray for your soul. You don't have to be a murderer to have no character. Mark McGuire cheated. Whether it was against the rules or not, it was still wrong. He knew it. His teamates new it. The Hall of Fame voters know it. The trial blemished his name and he has lost trust. People look at him differently now. It's like if someone walked in when you were looking at porn. You didn't kill anyone or hurt anything or do anything illegal (assuming you're of age). Of course, you'd say it was a pop-up or an email or 'plead the fifth' if you will. Even still, that person will never look at you the same. They will see less of a person. That one mistake caused your character, in that persons eyes, to vanish. That's what happened to Mark McGuire. He was caught in a sticky situation, tried to wiggle out of it, but compromised his integrity in the process. That's why he won't get in.
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Post by GEO on Jan 24, 2007 19:48:18 GMT -5
*Closed* Winner to Be Announced
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Post by GEO on Jan 24, 2007 19:59:14 GMT -5
This was a tough one to judge, and in the end, it came down to the big two players, BlackOps and BlindlyWeWander.
I feel that BlindlyWeWander had more "juice" (pardon the pun) in his posts, then BlackOps. At the same time, I recognize that the question in the title is "HOF Worthy?" It's tought to recognize the facts. As it stands, McGwuire has not been convicted of anything, and if people didn't think he took steroids, I think the answer would be "yes" he is HOF worthy.
BWW makes a good point about the human system. It's not a machine making the decisions. These are human beings, who saw Mark plead the fifth and not want to talk about the past. If he were innocent, why not just say so?
In judging, I have to say that I can't go with the opinion I feel is right, but rather, who made the best case for themselves.
The winner is BlindlyWeWander
Why? One main reason
-Answered and debated all points challenged.
Every point BO through at you, you somehow got around it.
*The leaderboard will be updated when you post the next debate. You have 2 days, or I will run the next one.*
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Post by blindlywewander on Jan 27, 2007 21:54:04 GMT -5
Sweet. Thanks man. If you've got a topic, you're welcome to throw it up. Or just PM me with it and I'll post it myself. Again, thanks a lot. Hopefully more people will participate in the next one.
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Post by phillyrules08 on Feb 2, 2007 23:14:23 GMT -5
McGuire should never and will never be in the HOF. He's a cheating idiot that has disgraced baseball. McGuire, Canseco, and Bonds. The three men who have trashed baseball.
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